Desmond's return to the past

When Desmond returned to the past after the hatch exploded, he was told by a woman (don't remember who it was) that if he doesn't make the exact decisions, then everyone WILL DIE!

Since Desmond accidentally killed Kelvin in the future, that would mean that if he wouldn't kill him in the new future, then Kelvin would die soon, as the universe would find its balance.

That would mean that if Desmond wouldn't go to the island so that he could type in the numbers after Kelvin would die, (concluding to everyone dying since he wouldn't make the same decision as the other time) that would mean that the button MUST be pressed.

Therefore, if you are confused, let me recap: Desmond lived everything we already saw on LOST already before. So if Desmond knew that everyone would die if the button wasn't pressed, why on the new time when he came back, he didn't let Locke stop pressing the button, and stop him from destroying the computer?

Did he want to destroy the hatch after all? Did Desmond not remember much of all these? This could be true, as Desmond hardly remembered who Charlie was when he saw him on the streets in the new time.

Any ideas?

Well, he did try to stop Locke at the last moment, after he read something off of Mr. Eko's stick, but what exactly made him change his mind, I'm not sure... some kind of scripture that struck him I guess, from his days as a brother.
However, he wasn't going to stop Locke before he read the stick, and then he turned the failsafe key, which then bought him back to a point in his life when a decision was made to ultimitely go to the island. We all saw in 'Flashes' what happened, but I'm still no certain that this Desmond would still push the button knowing all that he knows.

I hope that cleared it up for you, and if it didn't, I was planning on that, so I came equipped with a little spoiler for you.. are you ready.

The desmond on the island is not that same Desmond who turned the failsafe key. That should clear everything up.

I'm more confused now really. Don't worry, I always get confused with time travel stuff

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Do you mean that spoiler, as in, this Desmond, is the Desmond of another dimension?

Let's assume that the Desmond we saw after the failsafe key was turned was the Desmond of a different dimension. Would that mean that Desmond... The real Desmond we knew before, is dead? Or is he still alive, on the island as well along with the other Desmond?

Are there 2 Desmonds on the island? Or is there only 1 and the other 1 is with Penny?

If the other Desmond is with Penny, why would Penny act surprised when Charlie called for Desmond in the Looking Glass? Did she somehow know that her Desmond wasn't HER Desmond after all?

Too much fantasy for me. I'll get some sleep and I'll be back in some hours to reload my brain

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I believe the Desmond after the failsafe key is the Desmond of another dimension, who when the failsafe was turned and triggered an 'event' absorbed the memories of the Desmond we knew from the island, who sacrificed himself and turned the key. The producers have stated that in no way there is time travel on the show. If we are to believe them, then it can't be that the original Desomnd returned to the past, but the answer lies in timelines and alternate dimensions.
Take Penny for example, and if we are given her events in sequence, then why at the end of season 2 is she sleeping in what seems to be a small room, and is awoken by men who are looking for something that happens to coincide with the explosion of the hatch.. yet, like you point out, at the end of season 3, she is in a business attire and suprised to hear Desmonds name. The picture desmond originally had with he and Penny is different from the one she had, and the one Naomi carried. I believe this is pointing out that the Desmond after the failsafe told his Penny they 'weren''t supposed to be together'. I bet that Penny then gave up on Desmond, perhaps went to work for her father. THAT penny is suprised. If it were the same Penny who got the call from the guys in the Arctic listening station, she wouldn't be suprised. This is just speculation, but I think the producers have left clues for us that there are different timelines abound. Jack's father possibly being alive in the S3 finale, Jack travelling on an Oceanic plane when the company was supposed to be out of business. Even in Ben's flashback, where a young ben gets off the submarine with an older bearded guy and a black guy who then are seen in the background of the orientation video his father watches not long after arriving on the island.
This is just my speculation, but I believe there are many more clues as to alternate timelines being the case. I really thought a subtle clue to this was with Claire in 'maternity leave', and the carousel of minature Oceanic planes, 4 or 5 of them, swinging together above the crib in the medical hatch. I may be stretching here, but if I were planting clues in a show, that would be a fun one to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

When Desmond returned to the past after the hatch exploded, he was told by a woman (don't remember who it was) that if he doesn't make the exact decisions, then everyone WILL DIE!

Since Desmond accidentally killed Kelvin in the future, that would mean that if he wouldn't kill him in the new future, then Kelvin would die soon, as the universe would find its balance.

That would mean that if Desmond wouldn't go to the island so that he could type in the numbers after Kelvin would die, (concluding to everyone dying since he wouldn't make the same decision as the other time) that would mean that the button MUST be pressed.

Therefore, if you are confused, let me recap: Desmond lived everything we already saw on LOST already before. So if Desmond knew that everyone would die if the button wasn't pressed, why on the new time when he came back, he didn't let Locke stop pressing the button, and stop him from destroying the computer?

Did he want to destroy the hatch after all? Did Desmond not remember much of all these? This could be true, as Desmond hardly remembered who Charlie was when he saw him on the streets in the new time.

Any ideas?

This might be nit-picking, but the lady did not tell Desmond that everyone will die.

She said, "We will all die."

Given that the writers of Lost like to use double meanings to throw its viewers off-track, I would like to put forth the idea that the "we" she is referring to is actually herself and the others allied with her (like the monk, whom we will probably be seeing more of in season four).

Perhaps her group is what the Dharma Initiative have evolved into. Or...they are a counter group trying to change what is (or is about to) happen on the island.

Sound good?

Right Charlie, she said "All of US will die". Perhaps if the island is destroyed, all those associated or benefitting from the island will die. That sounds pretty plausible for the Lost Universe.

I had a feeling that if we were dealing with multiple timelines and the island exists somewhere between all the other timelines, then perhaps once one of your timelines intersect with the island, all of your timelines must eventually go there, a course correction for all. So, if one Locke goes there, and then the island is destroyed, all other Lockes will die because that would mean each timeline ceases to exist at some point.

I'm probably thinking WAY too much into it, but what else could that crazy old bat have meant by that statement.

04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CableRunner

Right Charlie, she said "All of US will die". Perhaps if the island is destroyed, all those associated or benefitting from the island will die. That sounds pretty plausible for the Lost Universe.

I had a feeling that if we were dealing with multiple timelines and the island exists somewhere between all the other timelines, then perhaps once one of your timelines intersect with the island, all of your timelines must eventually go there, a course correction for all. So, if one Locke goes there, and then the island is destroyed, all other Lockes will die because that would mean each timeline ceases to exist at some point.

I'm probably thinking WAY too much into it, but what else could that crazy old bat have meant by that statement.

One of the coolest time travel stories I ever read had the kicker that the first time the hero meets the enemy, is actually the second time the enemy has met and dealt with him.

In other words, the hero meets the enemy (who has been waiting for him) he is immediately captured and in the midst of fighting for his escape, triggers the enemy's early exit through a time machine. The hero is then moved forward in time by his superiors on Earth and finds the enemy. The enemy has never heard of our hero. Doesn't know him. So our hero pretends to be the guy's friend and sabotages the guy's time machine to send him back where he (the hero) met him (the enemy) the last time.

The story basically turns the idea of a linear timeline inside out.

You jump back in time to stop someone. You fail because you had already met this guy in this guy's timeline. So you jump further back along this guy's timeline, to now meet him the first time (according to his timeframe) and now you have the advantage.

To an outside observer, the two of you are living time in opposite directions. The first time he meets you is actually the second time you met him. And the first time you encounter him is actually the second time he's encountered you. When you jumped forward into your Future, you were actually jumping farther into this guy's Past.

Feeling dizzy yet?

What if one of the Dharma Projects created an alternate timeline, dependent on Desmond making all those unusual choices exactly that way? Pull out one of the bricks (change a decision) and the structure collapses ("We all die.").

That's what I was thinking of.
Very complicated stuff, time travel.

That's a great story, and a really cool idea. It's funny, because the producers say that time travel is not apart of the show, yet it has to be. If Desmond wanted to change things that would affect a future that Mrs. hawking is apart of, then she traveled in some way to prevent or change his course. I totally followed your book synopsis, so, either we are both crazy, in need of sleep, or we understand that the producers are trying to pull the wool over our eyes here.

What if the show has been solved during a discussion amongst a thread here or at some other forum? That means the podcasts are meant to direct us away from what we already had assumed. The only course correction I see is Darlton leading us away from the inevitable truth.

10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CableRunner

That's a great story, and a really cool idea. It's funny, because the producers say that time travel is not apart of the show, yet it has to be. If Desmond wanted to change things that would affect a future that Mrs. hawking is apart of, then she traveled in some way to prevent or change his course. I totally followed your book synopsis, so, either we are both crazy, in need of sleep, or we understand that the producers are trying to pull the wool over our eyes here.

What if the show has been solved during a discussion amongst a thread here or at some other forum? That means the podcasts are meant to direct us away from what we already had assumed. The only course correction I see is Darlton leading us away from the inevitable truth.

The other explanation might be that they cull ideas from the posts of the forums (our speculating helps them fine-tune their ideas and/or intoduce new ones).

Oh, and the part I forgot to put in concerning the time travel story: the main character doesn't know that he's travelling farther into the enemy's past. He thinks he's jumping to the next place their timelines "intersect." The hero (and the reader) don't find out that the two started at opposite ends of the other one's timeline and that the hero "solved" the problem the first time he met the enemy (the second encounter just "set-up" the first).

As for Mrs Hawking, she is keeping Desmond on the path, but Desmond is moving that path slightly by making slightly different decisions. Desmond's visions might just be the next intersection in the timeline where his slightly different decision has given him the ability to see the "old" future (the one that was part of the path before he took a slightly different step).

One of the conundrums of this is that the knowing of what's coming, changes what's coming (an added factor which changes the previous circumstances). Meaning, you do things differently (even if you try to do nothing differently) and thereby alter the results.

That's what made Desmond's asking to "Just let me go back, one more time...," scene so sad. He had the chance, but while he was in it he didn't believe it, so he didn't change a thing and lost his chance not to lose Penny and not lose those "wasted" years sailing, getting shipwrecked and then stranded on the island.

And when Desmond pulled down the woman in the parachute, I really think he thought it was Penny...dead from trying one more time to find him (and again, his fault).

Good thoughts Charlie...

But with Penny, I really believe that the Penny we see in 'Flashes' was so upset over the way desmond ended things that she swore him out of her life. We really never saw how the original Desmond broke up with penny, and perhaps he never actually did, but just started this craze to 'impress' her father and eventually joined the army, went sailing, etc. THAT Penny kept up with Desmond..

I don't know, that's my feeling.. and that what makes Desmonds new situation so sad... like you said... because not only can he see the mistakes he did make, twice, he can see future events that he MAY screw up as well.

Oddly, I was watching a scene from early in S3 where Desmond first comes out of the jungle naked and talks to Hurley, who gives him the tie-dye.. and Desmonds first flash was of Locke's speech, yet all the rest of his visions were of Charlie. I wonder what he will see now that Charlie is gone.