You CAN change the future - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeefJello

When Des first talked to Penny on the freighter you could kind of see a light go on inside his head - where he was finally grounded to the future (his new present time) and he remembered everything. I think the message in Daniels book wasn't there prior to Des' visit to Daniel. So...when Daniel finally read the message it was like a link to that new past and then it was his awakening to what had previously happened. Once he read the message he recalled the new events of the past as if they had happened all along. It was his link. I don't know if that makes sense, but it was just my gut feeling on what happened when he read that Des was his constant.

Could that writing in his journal BE his constant then? He did say it didnt have to be a person...

I don't think the writing was his constant since the writing said, "If anything bad happens, Desmond Hume is my constant". Desomnd was his link between the "new past" and the present.

Quote:

think what Daniel meant with "you can't change the future" is two-folded: 1) one cannot undo an action or intervene with an event that already happened: say if a vase is broken at point x in time, one can not go from point y, back to x and save it from the accident. It will happen the way it will, because it already has. 2) Yet, it seems one can go back and do an act anew, like adding a new point on the over all course of the line. Like you can go back and make a little prep-speech to your mom about the inevitability of random accidents

Flaneuse - what about this?
When you go back in time, you can only “change” things that don’t have an impact on your destiny. In other words, if you went to church on a specific date in the past, and then went back in time, you wouldn’t necessarily go to church in your new timeline. However, if you changed a belief as a result of going to church the first time around, “fate would find a way to influence you into that belief.” Perhaps you would have a near death experience, or maybe a mysteries person would greet you in a jewelry store and tell you that you need to change your beliefs… or, maybe fate would just kill you since it couldn’t find a way to change your belief.

Quote:

Originally Posted by queenbeesteph

Flaneuse - what about this?
When you go back in time, you can only “change” things that don’t have an impact on your destiny. In other words, if you went to church on a specific date in the past, and then went back in time, you wouldn’t necessarily go to church in your new timeline. However, if you changed a belief as a result of going to church the first time around, “fate would find a way to influence you into that belief.” Perhaps you would have a near death experience, or maybe a mysteries person would greet you in a jewelry store and tell you that you need to change your beliefs… or, maybe fate would just kill you since it couldn’t find a way to change your belief.

But, don't you think that it would defy the whole purpose of time traveling and render it superfluous? Why bother one self with all that life-risking temporal hiccup if there would be no change or only to an insignificant degree? A difference that doesn't make a difference is not a difference

Yet the notion of change entails difference in time & space, right?

Also consider this, is not everything in flux, motion and thus, change? Say, one is not doing a single thing different when living through the same past or future more than once- how are we to know that some change outside the grasp of our immediate sensory perceptions is not taking place? I guess I'm tending towards the idea that nature does have a way of course-correcting, but such correction already implies that time travel can change the past and future.

I began to write a post saying that, but was unable to find the words. I wanted to scream 'WHERE IS QUEENBEE?' I've seen your posts about this topic on many threads and i feel you communicate it very well while I was falling short. So thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaneuse

But, don't you think that it would defy the whole purpose of time traveling and render it superfluous?

Unless you went back in time to see Led Zeppelin

But seriously, I think we are going to find out that all of this time travel business is going to come back to the fact that "you" cannont change anything by traveling through time (to the past and future). Except we will find out that one (rogue) person, perhaps Ben, figured out some way to accomplish it, that's why he seems to know so much and why the freighter people are trying to stop him.

01:53 PM

*whisper* queenbeesteph is,in real life, a free will believer!

But for the purposes of this show - I have to consider what they've given me. I think a major theme, perhaps the major theme, of the show is fate vs. free will. Everything starts with the Dharma I. and its quests in regard to the Valenzetti Equation.

Quote:

The Valenzetti Equation is the mathematical equation developed by the reclusive Princeton University mathematician Enzo Valenzetti. Its creation was the result of efforts made following the Cuban Missile Crisis by the United States and the Soviet Union to find a solution to the hostility and danger of imminent global disaster created by the Cold War. The equation was secretly commissioned through the UN Security Council and is used to predict the time of human extinction.
Unknown man writing the Valenzetti Equation on a chalkboard in the Sri Lanka VideoAccording to the 1975 orientation film in the Sri Lanka Video, the Valenzetti Equation "predicts the exact number of years and months until humanity extinguishes itself." In it, Alvar Hanso also states that the radio transmitter on the Island, will "broadcast the core numerical values of the Valenzetti Equation." The numbers, 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42, are explained in the Sri Lanka Video, as the numerical values to the core environmental and human factors of the Valenzetti Equation. Alvar Hanso also states in the video that the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative is to change the numerical values of any one of the core factors in the equation in order to give humanity a chance to survive. However, Thomas Mittelwerk reveals that as of 2006, they have failed to change the values through manipulating the environment, as the equation continues to arrive at the same six numbers. It is unknown how or if the most recent calculation of the equation is automatically reflected in the radio transmissions.
Rachel Blake also learned that the Hanso Foundation was forcing savants at the Vik Institute in Iceland to run the equation over and over. Somehow, five hieroglyphic symbols were involved in the calculations (Armand Zander described them as "representative"), the same hieroglyphs seen on the countdown timer in the Swan station.
The Blast Door Map included a reference to the equation; a zone on the island is marked as being of "low relevance to Valenzetti-related research activity". - Lostpedia

I think the argument I made above would be the very argument Mrs. Hawking (and a 1996 Daniel who believes you "can't change the future.") would make... a persuasive argument to try and convince you that cannot escape your fate, therefore do not strive to overcome it, just settle in and accept it - with no regards to happiness, hope, love, etc.. Obedience is key.

Your theory is what Desmond (through trial & error), I'm sure, has come to believe. Desmond is battling to change his fate, but fate does not go gentle into that good night, but rages, rages, against poor Desmond - in the form of Charles Widmore.
(I have a secret feeling the REAL constant in the sea of variables in both Daniel's equation and the Valenzetti Equation is going to end up being LOVE, and that is going to end up being what can change the equations).

I do agree with you that if you can't change anything then the idea of time travel is superfluous and I think that was a major struggle of Dharma - you could either change yourself right out of existance or you couldn't change anything. (I'm not sure which the show is going to go with)

One final note: I never did truly believe Mrs. Hawking, nor do I believe Thomas Mittelwerk's above statement about not solving the Valenzetti Equation.

Now my head really hurts, why did penny's dad give des the number, and when does he get on the boat to do the race, please help

address = 1996
boat race = 2001

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjohnlocke

Unless you went back in time to see Led Zeppelin

A small step for mankind, but a huge one that'd be for me, too imjohnlocke . What a life changing experience that would be