I neither want to seem confrontational nor do I want to irritate anybody, who might rightfully think this is perhaps not the right board or thread to get into detailed philosophical discussions. But feeling 'among friends' to go clear and open about what I think, I have to say a couple of things about Spinoza and Nietzsche..and leave it there, not to offend or bore any one.

Spinoza, like other rationalist philosophers (Descartes and Leibniz) did follow what is called geometrical method to set up the logical structure of his arguments- yet his proof of God is not mathematical in any sense of the word. It's quite a twisted and baffling conception, Spinoza's notion of God, that he's remains as the only philosopher of West that's been called atheist, pantheist, monist and pluralist.. all at once

Another thing that makes it even more interesting is that Spinoza's ethics is absolutely contra any notion of morality, or whatever could be put under this umbrella term. Think about it: How are we to think of God and divinity, without moral interpretation? Why would you anyway, if there's no punishment or reward waiting you? What's a notion of ethics without morality? And why would ethics matter, if there's no judgements of moral kind? Spinoza was expelled (?) from Judaism and Catholic Europe made fun of him, printing his picture on dish-plates of royal family dining sets, with poems ridiculing his 'crazy' notions like God=Nature=Man=Universe=ALL=IS=necessity (totally reductionist but definitely not a false formulation, humbly yours)

I think Spinoza might be a significant reading for Ben due to 3 things: 1) Spinoza's particular notion of Nature 2) what is technically called conatus in Lt- a crucial notion of his that somewhat combines meanings of power, perfection, force and will in English language. It is something that not only individual creations express, but also Nature expresses it as well (sounds familiar?) and finally 3) passions understood as expressions of one's extent of conatus. Being also a political thinker, Spinoza also had a treatise in which he discusses possible systems of social and political communities, their strengths and weaknesses and their life-span, according to the level of conatus they hold. A very beneficial reading of ethics, psychology and politics..all in one. I thought some of his stuff might come handy for Ben

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"Bear...? Is that you?"-- Hurley S03E4

Queenbeestheph, I'm really enjoying what seems to be a conversation between only you and I (yet) and for the same reason I have a humble suggestion of forgetting everything you know about Nietzsche and consider these for a moment:

1) Nietzsche was not a nihilist. The death of God is an announcement one of his characters (Zarathustra) makes, but it is neither a lament or yahoo- it's a historical statement. This is something often misunderstood and Nietzsche's being (formerly) a philologist, writing very stylistically in German has a lot do with that misunderstanding. Nietzsche's critique of Christianity is precisely because of his dislike for nihilisim: after surveying the history of religions and history of Christianity itself, Nietzsche came to his argument that Christianity 'digged its own grave and happily so', because of what Nietzsche thought to be a very nihilistic understanding of God and world. Nietzsche was a Lutheran pastor's son so there's more to his critique of Christianity than some subjective dislike. I almost forgot, Jesus IS one of the fav historical characters of Nietzsche.. of all times according to him- yes, he's got the book Anti-Christ, but let's read that with Twilight of Idols, a little closely.

2) Nietzsche was great friends with Wagner, discussed philosophy and made music with him, until he came to the conclusion that Wagner is a romantic musician and a romantic thinker- it has nothing to do with Wagner's Christianity per se. Nietzsche and Wagner's notions of German culture differed in time and that's often the explanation given in historical canons. My man's no hater

3) Nietzsche has written very highly on Jews (in numerous books of his including Geneology of Morals and Twilight of Idols unless I'm mistaken). His idea of Overman (Uber-mensch) had no racist implications what so ever- the way racism is defined and understood today. And who do we owe this to? Nazism, of course. But note that it's the post-humous handling of Nietzsche's writings by his sister (married to a Nazi Party member) that has created the myth of Nietzsche pawing the way for Nazism. True that copies of his book titled Will to Power were provided for German troops on the line, but 1) that's a not a book but a compilation of unfinished notes of Nietzsche published after his death and 2) any reading of it would make it clear that there is nothing racist, violent or aggressive about that book, or the notion of will to power. It's a patch-work philosophical treatise, partially on critique of mechanistic understanding of nature and partially on nihilisim, and will to power as a remedy against nihilisim, not as a tool for further destruction. The damage Nietzsche's sister caused on the philosopher's reputation is widely acknowledged today and safe to say that proper translations and handling of his work cleared him of the proto-nazi accusation.

4) To me Nietzsche's like Iggy Pop in some aspects: we all know quite a lot about him, but few of them prove to be faithful hearings of what the guy's been trying to say He's often quoted out of his proper context, multiple characters and styles he writes from within often gets unnoticed, he's judged for being insane and inconsistent, and we end up with sharp quotes that are too easy to judge. True that Nietzsche has quite a shady notion of gender equality, but it'd be a little too easy to call him misogynist. A whip can be used in many ways (enter track Venus in Furs- Velvet Underground)

5) So why I think Nietzsche would be an interesting reading for Ben, or for any utopian-like island community (Dharma, or later Hostiles under Ben)? Again, ethics without morality; affirmation of life, nature and one's being without fear of some transcendental figure of reference, punishment or reward; and will to power, to proliferate and multiply life in a truly liberating, enriching and progressive fashion...Thinking of especially the social and political conjuncture of 60s & 70s, these and such notions would seem quite inspirational for communities and utopian projects like Dharma or Hostiles.

Nietzsche's also a very peculiar thinker in terms of the ways in which he combines psychology with culture and philosophy- he has a unique rendering of passions and forces of human psychology and he traces them throughout the history of West, to discuss how certain passions (in the sense of fear, resentment, hate, love, anger, courage etc) have been the instinctive fuel beyond individual psychologies of man, as well as of social and political structures, communities, religions etc in history.

I find some of these aspects of Nietzsche's thought resourceful or just fun re-consider when watching Lost.

I'm aware that Nietzsche wasn't on North America's best-sellers list for a significant amount of time, because of the popular myths I tried to mention above- but hey, Ben Linus is one exceptional weirdo (among all possible weirdos on and off the island) so he might as well get his hands on Walter Kaufmann's 'Portable Nietzsche' :P

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"Bear...? Is that you?"-- Hurley S03E4

I agree Nietsche would be great for Ben to read - but I'm am just going to have to disagree with you on Nietsche, I (obviously!) won't convince you and you cannot convince me to think otherwise of him (in school everyone of your above arguements we had bandied around for hours), but it's cool, lots of folks dig Nietsche - it just so happens I don't, despite all the study of him. But we are still good, right?

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`Dear, dear! How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is, Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle!'

-- Alice, from “Alice’s Adventure’s in Wonderland”

No doubt, cool.. Interpretations are multiple and great to entertain- Just mentioning a few historical facts that come before any like/dislike.

And keep the books coming Ben needs them..

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"Bear...? Is that you?"-- Hurley S03E4

Okay, so here are some more "Title Value Only" books:
* Hugo's Les Miserables
* Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities
*Wharton's The Children

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`Dear, dear! How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is, Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle!'

-- Alice, from “Alice’s Adventure’s in Wonderland”

A few more books Ben could (/have) read on the island, excluding the general titles or the obvious classics of this canon or that genre... I'm more into realistic projections of Ben's taste in books, in the sense of thinking about readings that'd be both manageable (length-wise) and relevant (content-wise) for his life, time on the island and persona. More fun trying to figure what textual inspirations might be behind the man Ben Linus as we know him.

Gilgamesh (Akkadian epic)
Confucius (Analects)
Aeneid (Virgil)

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"Bear...? Is that you?"-- Hurley S03E4

I think he would have read:

Grendel: b/c there are def. parallels here. Except Ben is actually human, but you know...
Macbeth: Struggle for power, betrayal, guilt
Darwin's Origin of Species: Would explain his way of thinking, his emphasis on the survival of the fittest etc.

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Because all we really need to survive is one person who truly loves us. And you have her.

Yeah, I think Grendel is an interesting one too, Baby Yo and def. relevant to Ben.

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"Bear...? Is that you?"-- Hurley S03E4

I keep forgetting Michael Ende's books- great for all kids and utopians Perhaps his "Never Ending Story"..

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"Bear...? Is that you?"-- Hurley S03E4

Daniel DeFoe's Robinson Crusoe..

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"Bear...? Is that you?"-- Hurley S03E4