Flight 815 Wreckage in the ocean?/ A little too hot for heaven?

05:10 AM

Two different characters (Naomi and Cooper-Sawyer dad) informed Losties with the news about Flight 815 lying down in the ocean. Meanwhile, the father-figure we all wish we had, said strange things in more than a few times: His question to Locke "don't you know where we are?" seemed most rhetorical as if he was trying to hint him towards something that Locke should have picked himself..because it's something personal?..like a fantasy, desire, will or unfinished business? (I think it was rather that of James that brought Cooper-sawyer to the island though, like queenbeesteph suggested elsewhere- but of course Cooper-Sawyer didn't know that and had his son in front of him) Sawyer Senior was also cynical about the 'island' and suggested it might be an unearthly place. The way he put it, he had a car accident, woke up in an ambulance, 'then it was all dark" and he's in some Magic Box after witnessing tons of absurdity that's either works of surreal fantasy (as in unconscious fantasies or dreams) or sign of having died.

This is obviously going to be one of the big bombs of the season as the finale fast approaches, so I'm wondering what forum members think about it. I thought the producers refuted theories concerning purgatory or limbo and seems that not a lot of people would be satisfied if it all came down to some meta-physical transitory space with religious quality. I'm personally confused about it: I'm fine with fantasies of dead fathers or brothers chasing Losties in the jungle but the whole thing being about an after-death space of personal closures would be disappointingly uncreative on producers' part. And these guys are anything but that!

Is it the time twist thing? do you think the fake wreckage theory works still, in the light of what we heard in this episode? Maybe a different theory- like Losties are all dead and it's their fantasies and dreams trapped in a loop created by the island's magnetism? I think I read a theory along those lines elsewhere.

Also, if the Flight 815 is really in the depths of the ocean, with bodies of all on board, Others must know this as well, considering they had contact with the outside world before the sky turned purple. Yet, their interest in Losties gave no sign of being intrigued by a super-natural encounter (in the sense of meta-physical, unearthly, even para-normal). I mean, if Losties are dead then it's either that Others are not that alive either, or that Ben's playing with his Ouija board a-la- island fashion.

I think there are three reasons why the losties are not dead: Richard Alpert, Juliet, and Ethan. These three are seen off the island in Juliet's FB. Ethan and Richard bring Juliet to the island. So can't we say that they are all alive in Juliet's FB? In later episodes they each have dealings with the losties, so what are they ghostwhispers? And does that mean a dead Charlie killed a living Ethan?
Then looking at a slightly different way, if all the losties are dead, does that mean all the others are dead too? So then ghost Richard and ghost Ethan go and recruit very alive Juliet?
Then what about Naomi, if they are all dead, then does that mean Naomi is dead too and didn't really survive the tree landing?

If they are all dead then things just don't add up. IMO anyways.

I listened to a podcast of Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindeloff and they both said to all the fans out there that are coming up with new theories of "purgatory" and "every one beign dead" should stop thinking those theories up. They also said that they never really give a lot of secrets away but what they will give away is this and i quote, "Out lost friends are NOT dead, and NOT in purgatory or anything of that sort".

What I was thinking about while driving to Madison this weekend is what if the losties never boarded flight 815.. Maybe they boarded a plane that was supposed to crash on the island and the real flight 815 crashed elsewhere.. I would guess that whoever can kidnap Cooper and fake a car crash would not be all that out there if someone was partial owner of the airline.. Then we could have a reason for all of the passengers of 815 being accounted for, they Losties were never really on that flight.. They could have even been hand picked but I don't know that is true.. Just a thought that could tie some of the pieces together.. Remember Cindy the flight attendant was on the flight and made it to the others and seems to be happy with them... Just another theory to throw out there to ponder..

I was thinking along those lines too. There is discussion elsewhere about a lot of our Losties had someone instrumental in getting them on that specific flight. If I am correct, Sawyer was being shipped back to the states by the Po Po, they got him his ticket. Claire's psychic told her it had to be that flight. Sayid's cia people got him on that flight? Sun wasn't supposed to be on that flight, she was supposed to run out the door and get in the waiting car. The walkabout company got Locke the flight. Maybe Hurley didn't barely make his flight, maybe they were waiting for him. Heck maybe Christian was killed so that Jack would be ready to leave asap instead of arguing with his dad possibly delaying his return date. I think Brian arranged Michael and Walt's flight.... I think there is a big conspiracy thing by big powerful somebodies going on, and I don't think those somebodies have anything to do with the Others. Remember they were surprised by the crashing plane. And Locke said something to Jack about 'Do you think this is all coincidence?' So this flight was arranged/staged to get these specific people on board and the pilot purposefully flew them toward the island.

02:31 PM

Here is what I am considering when thinking of the crashsite complete with bodies: The plane crash that both Naomi and Cooper refered to was found in a trench 4 miles deep by the island of Bali. Look where Bali is in relation to Sydney, Australia and also the island of Fiji (remember the pilot upon realizing there was engine trouble turned around to fly back to Fiji) Bali and Fiji are not EVEN CLOSE!!!

My map is not very good, but you can still see where I labeled Sydney, and Fiji, and Bali. How did a flight that was headed to Los Angeles, USA, (but turned back around toward Fiji) end up sinking in a four-mile deep trench off of Bali? AND why would anybody be looking for Oceanic Flight 815 over by Bali if it's destination was the United States? If our Losties' flight was a faux flight is that why the ticket agent was so easily convinced to skirt the law and allow Jack to take his father's body on the flight?

Also - here's some stuff I found doing research. The deepest part of that particular body of water (Timor Sea) around Bali is something called the Java Trench (the Marianas Trench is over by the Philippines - which is the deepest known location on earth at around 6 1/2 miles deep)... anyway... the deepest part of the Java Trench is around 4 1/2 miles deep. Java is the island just to the west of Bali. The Java Trench is located between these islands and Australia, where two plates collide. 4 1/2 miles is VERY deep.

I can't come up with a good reason for why they found the crash in the ocean. I do like some of the theories you guys have come up with.
As for the Losties being dead... I have to say I really don't think so. Besides the pod cast info and just not wanting to believe it. How can dead people die again? There's Boone, Shannon, The marshal, the pilot, Ernts, Paulo, Nicki,( They have to be dead by now.) A.L., Libby, Mr. Eko Cooper... Need I go on? I just don't see how that's possible.

I rewatched the epi last night and Cooper never says that the plane when down by Bali - in fact - Cooper says the plane crashed in the PACIFIC ocean. Bali and Java are in the Timor Sea which is considered more of the Indian Ocean.