yeah, that's our fundamental difference. I think that smokey CAN transform and now we have to re-think all of those past "visions" like jack's dad walking on the beach, kate's black horse, Dave, Ana-Lucia appearing to Eko after she was dead, Cindy who just up and disappeared in the jungle, Joanna who "drowned", etc... I think they were possibly, probably smokey. I believe this idea changes EVERYTHING because now we don't know real from "smoke and mirrors"

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Well. I still need something to base this on, becuase its all kinda convenient, but doesnt make perfect sense...

we would need to strecth pretty far to, now assume that Smokey is also telepathic (reads minds of potential victims...), has moral/raligious beliefs similar to those of a human from OFF the island... ( since ecko did not ask for fogiveness he gets death) I mean that kinda makes the smoke like God. I would assume that it would be going after a few other people if it were making moral judgements on our characters...

I guess it comes down to this...

We havent seen smokey do any transforming.
We have seen it appear when a character is having visions in the forrest. We have Seen it appear without visions in the forrest.

I think if a dinosaur didnt kill the pilot from season 1 ep 2, then it was smokey...

I would like to hear some sort of feasible explanation for smokey that would logically explain these 3 things:

1. - What he is?

2. - How he would transform?
(The "why" makes sense if hes reading minds and taking the shape of the images he sees, but again why go through all that trouble to become a boar and run after locke, whe you can pound him smokey style)

3. - In What way does killing off the sinners satisfy him?
( is he a celestial being?, don't most major religious teach forgiveness no matter what? doesnt seem like the lords will to me... )

see hes like an attack dog trained to deal with intruders in a certain way. Yes maybe it does a little recon before the dirty deed, but thats easliy progammable.

The writers already confirmed that there are no dinosaurs on the island.

well remember... I think someone is controlling the Smoke monster (cerberus project - see blast door map post by Wander)so it's the person, not Smokey, making judgements 9which means he can make mistakes). If he can observe Others and survivors without being seen(possibly even the Remote Viewing that Ms. Kugh and the Others were trying to get Walt to do. RVS on Blast Door Map), he can learn things. The Others have dossiers on some of the survivors (ben said that thing about juliet and sarah looking alike) so maybe they can upload photos. I concur with you about the proof because I've read somewhere that the writers?producers? say that 1. they're not in purgatory and 2. everything is based on real stuff (meaning no make-believe fairies and gnomes etc...) ... it is lost so the facts/proof will always be scant. I believe there is someone controlling the smoke monster, with access to computer equipment(in the background of the video of Eyepatch man) who is deceiving the survivors for a yet unknown purpose. That's all I mean.

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So benmer007, do you think everyone - Locke, Sayid, those two newbies were hallucinating, too. Didn't all those people see the smoke monster pick up Eko. The smoke is able to have substance/consistancy to grab Eko, right? And the Smoke Monster grabbed Locke and was pulling him down that vent. Did Jack and Kate not see the smoke monster?

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I think benmer007 was saying that the losties see visions of past loved ones etc to bring them to the place where they need to be for whatever reason . Smokie is a seperate thing altogether . Maybe he is attracted by movement , strong emotion or something like that . Why he is violent and kills is the mystery . Maybe the 2 or connected maybe not .... I agree with benmer007 on this point ...

I think the islands electromagnetic fields ( or whetever the force is that heals and empowers some..) also probably affect the human mind. Perhaps they also intensify experienes... thoughts... flashbacks... hallucinations and maybe even awaken the regions of our brains that are unmapped...

point being is that i dont think smokey has been all the people we have unexplainedly seen in the forrest. I think it is mechanical. ( per the sounds it typically has associated with its behaviour) Someone posted visual ideas of smokey that are like doctor octopus mechanical arms from the spiderman 2 movie. and perhaps they create the smoke from within its coils or whatever... would explain it dragging locke into a hole. But we have seen it flying alone so its not attached to the ground.


Thanks Katobe... good thought on the smokey attraction to specific stimulus. ( ie movement, emotion, sweat, inner peace...?)

well put. It seems everone has things they need to get past in their old ways of life. They are now in a new life and cant move forward/leave the island/die/whatever, until they come to that place within themselves. Ecko was finally no longer torn by his guilt. he moved past it and owned it in his life, as opposed to letting it be a crutch or hinderance. I think if anything, smokey saw Ecko was now a whole person in his own eyes and sent him home... so to speak.

I think our fundamental difference is you think the visions and the smoke monster are separate entities. I think they are part the same system ("cerberus system" is what it's called on the blast door map) Because it is a system, I think someone is controlling the smoke, but I concur with you that it could be attracted to specific stimulus, which is what could make it dangerous, picking wrong emotions or whatnot, because, again, on the blast door map the cerberus system had a CATASTROPHIC malfunction. It's a "security system" for the island "gone wrong". I do agree with you that you do hear both that "gurgling" sound and "mechanical" sounds when Cerberus is around, there are also vents located around the island and a "nexus" for the system, as written on the blast door map. That's my deal, that's all.

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I don't remember anyone actually seeing smokey 'do' anything for sure. Whatever pulled Locke down that hole, Jack and Kate didn't see, I don't think (it was blocked by the hole). And weren't Locke, Desmond, and everyone else in the hatch watching 'eye-patch' guy when Eko was killed? They heard something . . . that's why they came out. I don't think anyone actually saw him get killed, they just heard it. So, nobody there really knows how smokey kills (assuming smokey killed Eko in the first place).

I agree with queenbeesteph - I think smokey and the visions are closely related. My guess is that something related to smokey causes hallucinations to the Losties that makes them see things. Don't have an explanation as to what smokey is or how it might kill. Should be interesting to see how the writers explain that with something 'real'.